AAMA Window Testing Frequency

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Author Message William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 930 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 05:20 pm:    I am having trouble finding the AAMA requirement for the age validity of a testing report. That is, a window manufacturer has the tests performed, how old is that test permitted to be before it is no longer valid. I have a copy of the current AAMA 101 standard, but do not find a reference in it as to how old a test report can be before it is no longer valid. A reference to where you come up with a life limit would be helpful. I thought it was 5 years, but I have a window manufacturer telling me it is 10 years. They are pointing to a date on the report, but the date they are pointing to is the retention date - that is, how long the testing agency will hold onto the report. AAMA's standard requires this retention date, but does not define it as the 'life' of the test report, only how long the lab will keep it on file. Thanks! William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 823 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 06:19 pm:    Given that the AAMA standards have been changing every 5 to 8 years for the last 20 years, I would think that requiring compliance with the latest standard might be sufficient. That being said, I can imagine all kinds of modifications can creep into the manufacturing process over a period of 5 to 10 years. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 725 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Friday, May 01, 2015 - 06:37 pm:    The only things that could impact the validity of the report are whether the product is manufactured differently or the standard had changed. If you are concerned about whether the products delivered to the job would also comply, such as workmanship issues in manufacturing, then you would need to have specified job specific testing. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1630 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2015 - 12:19 pm:    Mark is correct, if no changes were made in the product then it would still be "acceptable" in the sense that it would meet the testing. However, manufacturers often make minor changes in their products which may affect performance, particularly when they accumulate over a period of time. Minor changes are permitted to be made by AAMA without triggering retesting, so this can be tricky to determine. A manufacturer may subtly change a die shape, or buy a very slightly different gasket, or alter how joinery is done. Only engineering judgement is available to vet this without another round of testing. This is all separate from the question of whether the manufacturer meets the most current standard. AAMA is a trade organization made up of fenestration manufacturers, of course. In order to ease the cost of retesting (which can be quite expensive for a full line of products with different operation etc.), AAMA does not require manufacturers to retest every time there is a new standard published. However, it does have an limit on how old a test can be. About ten years ago that was four years. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the AAMA standards available to see if that has been changed. The great difficulty with this is that you may have difficulty comparing two products which are both legitimately tested, but to different versions of the standard. I got around this at one point by specifying performance twice, one listing for each version. This required a tremendous amount of deep digging into the details to be sure it worked, but because it was a product type with limited market entrants, it was my best choice to keep some competition in bidding. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 931 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2015 - 02:30 pm:    Thanks, guys. My understanding was that it was something about 5 years as noted above, but I had heard 4 quoted before. I also understood about the changes in fabrication that if (in whoever's judgement) that changes something enough to impact performance that it requires retesting. And of course, when a new standard is published, testing is required if the changes relate to performance requirements. And that there is a 'grandfathering' so to speak before they are required to do so. The major revision of the 2008 version using that as a guide, the manufacturers were given 3 years to comply, so its likely 3 years for anything since that was so major. So, on this issue, I do have a searchable version of the pdf of the 2008 standard and the update package to 2011. I have run a search in it for "years" "year" and numerous other single words looking for something that would be talking about how many years a test was valid. Nothing. The only thing that comes up is that the test must have a 'retention date' listed on it by the testing agency of not less than 4 years. This is a requirement imposed on the testing agency to retain a record of the test, its not anything to do with the validity of how long a test is good for. As a humorous note, the supplier of the windows for this project is trying to point to that length of time as how long the test is valid - and the testing agency has filled in 21 years as to how long they will retain the test !! Anyway, it seems that the 2008 and 2011 versions of AAMA do not address the time for which the test is valid. Perhaps they state this in some other standard, or in some other publication. I will try to post a question to them to see what turns up and post what I find back here. Right now, for this project, the tests were performed in 2011 under the 2008 standard, and our project was published in December of 2014 (Division 1 listing that standards shall be those current at the time of publication of the spec). That's pretty close, so we are asking that the manufacturer either provide more current tests or that they provide a letter certifying that the tests are in compliance with AAMA requirements for the validity of the tests. If anyone else comes up with something, post it here. Thanks!! William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 932 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2015 - 02:50 pm:    I have just posted the question on the AAMA web site. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 933 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 05:10 pm:    Hey, got a quick answer from AAMA... In short, 5 years. Here is the relevant statement: "Test reports from AAMA-accredited test labs are acceptable for a 5-yr term toward AAMA product certification and labeling...". They then go on to make sure I know that testing is an independent process and that no one is required to be AAMA certified, etc. in the same sentence, but, does not change this basic initial statement. That came from: "Dean Lewis Educational & Technical Information Manager American Architectural Manufacturers Association 1827 Walden Office Square Suite 550 Schaumburg, IL 60173 www.aamanet.org phone 847-303-5664" William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, May 04, 2015 - 06:03 pm:    William: AAMA has a certification search on their website. It is very helpful for this sort of thing. If it is not listed then I would be skeptical. -Brett