Non-load bearing ceiling joist spec

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Author Message Bruce Konschuh Senior Member Username: brucek Post Number: 9 Registered: 08-2014 Posted on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 04:26 pm:    An architect is asking me for a non-load bearing ceiling joist spec. I have 05 40 00 cold formed metal framing, which is for load bearing walls, and 05 42 00 cold-formed metal joists (floor joists only). And in 09 22 16 there is non-structural met framing, which is for walls only. ?? Is there a boilerplate for non-load bearing ceiling joists?? (w/ GWB finish only) Or is struct text usually added to one of the div 05 sections, or are notes added to struct drawings? Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 720 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 06:40 pm:    Ceiling joists support load irrespective of what is said. The only question is the magnitude of the load. Focus on the material and installation requirements. If it will be constructed using light gage metal framing just include the work in the section with the other similar light gage metal framing. Expand the scope of the section with the typical wall studs. Who addresses the structural issues related to this non--structural component? The structural engineer will not want these joists on his drawings or in one of the specifications sections that he has primary responsibility for unless he sees it as part of his scope of work. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 888 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 07:41 pm:    Bruce, just to clarify 054000 is for cold-formed metal framing. Wall studs can be load-bearing or non-load-bearing but are considered "structural" because they can withstand imposed loads whether or not they're supporting the building structure. Section 092216 is for non-structural studs limited to a lateral load of 10 PSI or less per ASTM C645. I don't often use CFMF as truss or joist systems. Section 054000 from MasterSpec does include joist systems; they also have a cold-formed metal truss Section. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 721 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 10:11 pm:    The term non-structural evolved to describe parts of the building that were not part of the primary structural system of the building and or items that were not part of the structural engineers scope of work. There are some structural issues related to these components but normally nobody wants to pay for them to be formally engineered. We often have multiple specification sections for similar components because they are a part of different systems or because different design professionals take the lead, not because there is anything different about the members, material standards, or fasteners. The appropriate metal stud is a function of span, deflection criteria, and load. Thus to say that Section 092216 is limited to a lateral load of 10psi does not appear to make sense. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 889 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 11:07 pm:    First, I would like to apologize for the typo (see below and my initial post) regarding 10 psi lateral load. Typically Section 092216 Non-Structural Framing is based on ASTM C645. This is what ASTM C645 states (hoping I'm not violating copyright): 3.2.2 Nonstructural wall stud: A member in a steel framed wall system which is limited to a lateral (transverse) load of not more than 10 PSF (480 Pa), a superimposed vertical load, exclusive of sheathing materials, of not more than 100 lbf/ft (1460 N/m), or a superimposed vertical load of not more than 200 lbs (890 N). These limitations do not apply to work of Section 054000 which is typically written around other ASTM standards and usually require the ability to withstand much higher loads than those identified in Section 092216. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 811 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 07:56 am:    The Division 09 section also includes suspended ceiling systems which probably be modified to include what your client needs. I am assuming that he is seeking "ceiling joists" that span wall to wall, but do not support a load other than the ceiling, lighting, and A/C stuff. Bruce Konschuh Senior Member Username: brucek Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2014 Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 06:45 pm:    Mark, Ken and Peter: thank you for your responses. After more review, it has been determined that our ceiling joists are "more load bearing" than originally thought - and 054200 has been revised accordingly.