"Project Site" vs "Job Site"...

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Author Message Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 666 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 02:17 pm:    What is the difference between "Project Site" and "Job Site" I've seen them both used interchangeably in the same spec section. It's somewhat confusing Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 170 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 04:24 pm:    I would guess job site is a colloquial term, and Project Site is more likely defined in the conditions of the contract. Jeff Wilson Wilson Consulting Inc Narberth PA Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 667 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 10:03 am:    Jeff - I have to agree with you. I think "job site" is a carry over from earlier days. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1628 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 10:27 am:    I agree, no difference, but Project Site may be a better term. The most important, I think, is to consistently use one or the other. Then no one wonders if one means something different by using one or the other. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 787 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 05:42 pm:    What's wrong with just using "site"? I did a brief search of AIA A201(07), PDPG, and CAPG, and found both terms used. AIA uses "project site" once (superintendent needs to be present at...) , and "jobsite" twice (modifying safety), but just plain old "site" all over the place. The practice guides use both, with "project site" predominant , with "job site" or "job-site" used just three times (safety, safety, and freight FOB to...,). Again, many more references to just plain "site". Interesting that "jobsite", "job-site", and "job site" are all used in just the few instances found. Also, note that the site can be the same as or different from the property (defined by the property lines). Then there are the "contract limit lines" which confine the extent of contractor's activities and control. These can be, one presumes, either the same as or different from the site or the property. Can we make our terminology any more irregular? Karen L. Zaterman, CCS, LEED-AP, SCIP Senior Member Username: kittiz Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 06:04 pm:    I agree with Jeff. Used to come across mixed terminology between various consultants all the time so I just defined both as interchangeable terms in Div.01 --it was especially the easy out for those Sections received at the last minute. Karen L. Zaterman, CSI, CCS, SCIP-Affil, LEED AP BD+C Richard Baxter, AIA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rbaxter Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 06:05 pm:    AIA A201 defines "site" in article 2.1.2 as the property on which the project is located. Thus, "site" can be more than just the location of the project. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 725 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 06:58 pm:    My AIA glossary of terms defines: Project Site: See Site. Site: Geographical location of the Project, usually defined by legal boundary lines. DBIA defines Site... is land or premises on which the Project is located. Therefore I go to my job at the project site. Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 10:20 am:    I generally use "project" instead of "job" when referring to the project site, project number, etc. But I think the industry regards them as equivalent terms. Not a big deal--but "job site" is slang. On the other hand, I have always thought that if I ever became prosperous enough as an architect to buy a really nice boat, I would call it the "Job Site". That way my secretary could tell callers, "I'm sorry; he's out on the Job Site right now..." Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1288 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 11:12 am:    I think the apparent disparity in use, especially the use of "jobsite" and its various forms in regard to safety, is that "jobsite" safety does not necessarily apply just to the "project site." OSHA, which regulates construction and all other forms of occupational safety, use the term "jobsite" because safety applies to wherever the "job" is located and not just where the "project" is located. Thus, when the A201 refers to "jobsite" in regard to safety, they may be implying that safety is the contractor's responsibility, regardless of where the job occurs. It could be at an off-site fabrication area, the remote parking area for workers, etc.--none of which would be considered the "project site." Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 152 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 11:32 am:    Ron, I was not aware of this distinction before your post, which is why I thought of "jobsite" as slang, not a technical term or "term of art" as the lawyers might put it. And I suspect there are many in our professions that are similarly unaware of the distinction. If that's the case, it would be good to define both terms very carefully somewhere in the front end (if they're not already so defined) to make it clear that (for OSHA purposes, etc.) "jobsite" can refer to the location(s) of contract- or project-related work beyond the "project location", while (for lien purposes, etc.) "project site" refers to the physical property (real estate) on which the work product is located. Can "project site" also mean a delimited portion of that property, i.e., the part of that property within the "Contract Limits" excluding areas off limits to the Contractor? Or do we need a third term to refer to the area within the Contract limits? Wherever those are defined, it probably ought to be added that, in informal or casual usage, "jobsite" and "project site" are often used interchangeably, lest we introduce distinctions that are unintended. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 668 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 11:52 am:    Thanks for the input from all of you. The consensus seems to be "Project Site" is the more preferred term. Robert - As one who is around the water as much as I am, I like your thinking on a boat name! Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 12:08 pm:    More preferred, yes--but both terms have their place, in certain contexts. (In my post above, I had forgotten that George had already mentioned these same distinctions--and with examples of just how confusing the usage is.) Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 726 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 12:14 pm:    Richard and Robert, There was a photo making it's away via social media of a large yacht and it's putt-putt. I think the small boat was named Base Bid. The yacht was named Change Order. Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 12:40 pm:    Yes, I thought of it as I was writing that (though mine would have been a sailboat). It's been around for years. I saw it just yesterday incorporated into a lunch 'n' learn presentation. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 253 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 01:54 pm:    If you are looking for a sailboat: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/Royal-Huisman--2726517/France#.VQm7fzbD82U Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 727 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 02:17 pm:    May I crew? I'm low maintenance. Must have access to frequent H-D rides while on shore. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 474 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 06:40 pm:    I need something more in my price range. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/zip/4937191478.html