Wire Glass

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Author Message Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 135 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 08:45 pm:    I am assisting the board of directors of an independent living facility in the investigating of a few issues at their relative new building, built under 2006 IBC. One issue is the installation of standard wire glass in 90-minute fire-rated doors of 100 square inches. It is my understanding that under 2006 IBC, section 715.4.6.4, any glass installed in a door, whether fire rated or now, must comply with the impact resistance per Chapter 24. The architect of record has stated the following: “The NFPA 252 being referred to outlines methods of fire testing door assemblies that testing laboratories and manufacturers can use to determine the degree of fire protection provided by such assemblies and assess their suitability when fire resistance of a specific duration is required and prescribes standardized fire and hose stream test procedures that apply to fire door assemblies intended to be used to retard the spread of fire (flame, heat, and hot gases) through door openings in fire-resistive walls. The Standard allows different fire door assemblies to be compared with each other in order to evaluate their relative performance as measured against a standard fire experience. SOooo…. If the door was tested by UL or some other testing agency, they probably used NFPA as their guide on how to test that door. The NFPA 252 words might not actually show up on the tag but I’m sure whatever testing agency that rated the door will be on the tag and I’m fairly confident that they followed NFPA 252 guidelines. As I stated before…your good. The doors are good. The wire glass is good. as long as the door was an NFPA approved fire door (NFPA 252) then the wire glass of 100 square inches or less was acceptable if it meets the NFPA 252 testing requirements.” Which is correct? Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 663 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 09:50 pm:    Ronald - To the best of my knowledge, recent IBC codes have prohibited the use of wire glass as it does not pass the human impact requirement, Therefore, wire glass is not good. Regardless of what NFPA may say, The building code at the time the building was constructed governs. Even if wire glass was allowed, I saw first hand what happens when a person's head comes in contact with a wire glass vision light - slice & dice Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 10:19 pm:    I believe the code also exempts openings through which a 3-inch ball cannot pass, from the safety glazing requirement. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 664 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2015 - 11:16 pm:    Bottom line - DO NOT specify wire glass! I haven't checked recently, but I'm not sure it is even manufactured any more. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 805 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 08:02 am:    Wire glass never met the criteria for safety glazing but was accepted it did meet the requirements for fire-resistive construction. I also seem to remember that it wasn't all that good at fire resistance, especially in larger sizes. Over the last 20 years fire-resistive glazing has been introduced that does meet the safety glazing requirements. The codes have been slow to embrace these products, but wire glass is disappearing. I am less concerned about the 10 by 10 lites that are installed about 60 inches or so above the floor. Reall not sure safety glazing would be required here. However, a lite a little more than 4 inches wide located a little above the lock set should have safety glazing. Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 264 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 09:53 am:    I would recommend they replace the wire glass immediately, with real safety glass, fire rated if required. Appeal to their ethics and their wallets, considering the liability for impact accidents. Lori Greene, my door hardware superhero, has at least three separate blog posts about the dangers of traditional wired glass. Here's the first one: http://idighardware.com/2013/01/addressing-the-hazards-of-traditional-wired-glass/ Even if it was legal at the time of construction, once the building owners and property managers are aware of the dangers, I think they have a responsibility to protect their residents. - Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1285 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 10:49 am:    Wired glass was permitted by exception in the 2003 IBC and earlier editions. The 2006 IBC and later editions no longer have the exception. 16 CFR 1201, still has an exception that allows wired glass: "(c) Exemptions. The following products, materials and uses are exempt from this part 1201: "(1) Wired glass used in doors or other assemblies to retard the passage of fire, where such door or assembly is required by a federal, state, local, or municipal fire ordinance." However, since the federal regulation defaults to local ordinance, and since the 2006 IBC is applicable, then wired glass would not be permitted, unless the opening does not allow passage of a 3-inch-diameter sphere per Section 2406.3.1. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 841 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 01:27 pm:    What about wired glass with a film? Bill Coady CSI, CCPR Senior Member Username: billcoady Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 01:59 pm:    I believe all the comments above are correct but some are incomplete or dated. While traditional wire glass is no longer accepted as a safety glazing, there is a wire glass that does meet safety glazing codes and some fire rated applications. My company is not in that business. Contact Technical Glass Products or Vetrotech St. Gobain for current, accurate info on both conditions. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 472 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 02:18 pm:    The only appropriate current use for wire glass is as the top for a steam punk coffee table. Seriously, there are better performing glass products without the wire. Traditional wire glass is actually less impact resistant than the same glass formulation without the wire. Wire glass was originally developed in the 1800's for security purposes because you would need to hand cut every wire to break into a window fitted with wire glass. The only partially logical reason to use it would be "to match existing" at a facility where they is a lot of installed wire glass as an existing condition. TGP is a good place to start looking for a better preforming modern replacement product. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1985 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 02:42 pm:    Wire glass cannot be tempered and that's part of the problem Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 723 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 02:45 pm:    I am late to the party. Wired glass is still available from Technical Glass Products (TPG). WireLite and WireLite NT. WireLite is fire-rated wired glass good for 20 minutes and 45 minutes openings other than doors. WireLite NT is fire-rated, impact safety-rated (CPSC 16CFR1201 Cat. II) wired glass with surface-applied fire-rated film. Good for doors 20, 45, and 60 min rated and openings other than doors. Both pass required hose stream test. Go to www.fireglass.com Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 842 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 03:15 pm:    www.anemostat.com/doorproducts/gp_fire_safety.asp This from 3M, though I don't know if it applies to wired glass: 3M Scotchshield Ultra S600 would has met the Category 2 impact standards of 16 CFR 1201. We use 3rd party test reports from a Safety Glazing Certification Council (SGCC) accredited lab to show compliance to a local code official. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 665 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 03:18 pm:    All I know is I'm not specifying any wire glass. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1286 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 05:48 pm:    Bill Coady's comments are correct, and I should further clarify... Standard wired glass (i.e. the type that does not meet 16 CFR 1201 standards) is not prohibited in building construction--it is just not permitted in areas where safety glazing is required per the IBC. There are wired glass products that do meet the Category I and II requirements of 16 CFR 1201. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com SamBerg (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 05:52 pm:    Wayne is correct. TGP (my employer) supplies a filmed wire glass called WireLite NT that meets CAT II impact and 45 minute rating (60 and 90 for small door lites). To Richard's point, we also carry the FireLite family of products (glass ceramic) and Pyrostop (multi-laminate) which are fire rated and impact rated as well. Please give us a shout at 800-426-0279 if you seek further information. Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: louis_medcalf Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 03:49 pm:    If you go back a couple of decades, there was the interesting situation that the building code required wire glass for glazed opening in rated assemblies, which was a product not legal to manufacture in the US because of EPA regulations on the polishing necessary for optical clarity. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 845 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 05:18 pm:    Just dump the dirty work on someone else. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1625 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 12:57 pm:    There may have been restrictions on how glass polishing needed to be done to meet environmental regulations. However, that did not make it "illegal" to produce in the US. It just meant that manufacturers felt they could produce it elsewhere more cheaply by exporting our pollution to another country, in this case, I believe that was Japan. As we know, this sort of thing commonly still goes on.